rotor testing stator testing

islanddave · Posted: July 10, 2009, 12:18 am Post subject: rotor testing stator testing

Hello,

I blew up my voltage regulator rectifier, and need to test the staots and rotor to see if they got damaged. I placed a fuse of too high and amperage into the loop and fried the reg/rect.

How do i go about testing the rotor and stator?

Thanks Dave

Retiredgentleman · Posted: July 10, 2009, 12:54 am Post subject: Re: rotor testing stator testing

Go to www.biker.net.
Click on........Yamaha XS650 Twin Reference & Info
Click on........XS650 Service Manual
Click on.......650E Electrical
Section 6.2 Charging System

When you measure the resistance of the rotor, you need to remove at least one brush.

The stator windings are a little tricky to measure because the resistance is so low. If using a digital meter (lowest scale), touch the leads together and note the reading. Measure from white to white ( 3 combinations).
Example: white to white measures =1.2 ohms
leads shorted together = 0.7 ohms
actual stator windings are 1.2-0.7=0.5 ohms

Also measure from the windings to ground:
Rotor slip ring to rotor body should be infinity
Stator windings to engine bare metal should be infinity

islanddave · Posted: July 14, 2009, 10:52 am Post subject: Re: rotor testing stator testing

Ok gentleman.......I took at look at the readings and preformed some tests on the rotor.

I took my handy Mastercraft meter and set the meter to 200 ohms I have the choice of 20M, 2000K, 200K ohms sign, 20K, 2000 triangle with a cross sign, and 200. Which is correct? With the rotor mounted on the tapered shaft from the crank and no brush contact I get the following readings:

When I place the meter across the rings of the rotor I get the reading of 05.2........the spec is 5.25 +/- 10 percent.
When i touch the meter leads together I get 00.2. When the leads are apart I get 1_ _._ is that infinity? With one lead on a ring and one lead on the rotor body I get the same reading as when the leads are not touching anything.

Could you please decipher the preceeding for me?

Thanks Dave

jayel · Last edited by jayel on July 14, 2009, 12:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

your reading should be ok, 5-7 between the rings, 0 ring to body, yes your reading when probes are not touching eg. 1_ _. _ is infinity
i believe your setting of the 2000 cross in a triangle is a diode checker beeps one direction won't the other

pamcopete · Posted: July 14, 2009, 12:33 pm Post subject: Re: rotor testing stator testing

islanddave,

When checking between either ring to the frame, you should use your highest Ohms scale because you are looking for a very high resistance.

Do not touch the probes when using the high scale because your body resistance will cause a reading.

Ideally, you should read infinity from either ring to the frame, although sometimes a reading of several tens of meg Ohms may register, but that is acceptable

islanddave · Posted: July 16, 2009, 2:36 pm Post subject: Re: rotor testing stator testing

Well i tested the stator today and got the following reading on the white wires in all three combinations 00.7 When the leads of the meter are touched together i get 00.2. These readings have been obtained with the stator removed from the bike and the meter is set on the 200 (first postion from right ohms scale) as seen in the preceeding picture above
So 00.7-00.2=00.5 ohms

The spec for the rotor is 5.25 +/-10 High of 5.77 low 4.72
The spec for the stator is 0.46 +/- 10 High of 0.506 low 0.414

y specs for rotor is 5.2 - 00.2= 5
y spec for stator is 00.7-00.2=00.5

So if I am reading and doing this correctly then both my rotor and stator are within spec.

Is this correct????

Thanks for the help,

Dave

Retiredgentleman · Posted: July 16, 2009, 8:41 pm Post subject: Re: rotor testing stator testing

Yes , dave your rotor and stator are in spec with those readings. Have you measured from the windings to ground (should be infinity)?

islanddave · Posted: July 16, 2009, 9:31 pm Post subject: Re: rotor testing stator testing

Not yet gentleman but I will within the next couple of days, been so busy with work lately this electrical stuff has been a real learning experience with me thank you to all who have helped me with this!!!!

Dave

xsleo · Posted: July 19, 2009, 11:08 pm Post subject: Re: rotor testing stator testing

With a good stator and rotor, burned up reg/rect Now is a good time to do the less than $25 reg/rect mod as pamcopete figured out.

islanddave · Posted: August 7, 2009, 9:57 pm Post subject: Re: rotor testing stator testing

xsleo wrote:

With a good stator and rotor, burned up reg/rect Now is a good time to do the less than $25 reg/rect mod as pamcopete figured out.

This $25 mod.........ends up costing about $100 here in Canada.that is if you can even find the parts. I have read other posts of fellow Canucks who gave up on this conversion and just bought aftermarket reg/rect from Mikes.

Dave

Retiredgentleman · Posted: August 7, 2009, 10:49 pm Post subject: Re: rotor testing stator testing

islanddave;
It will definitely cost more in Canada. Here's how my cost adds up:

VR-115 Regulator from California $9.99 US
Shipping $8.00 US
total $17.99 US
total $ 22.98 Can

2 Bridge Rectifiers from local electronics supplier (Active Electronics)
$12.00 Can

6 pin connector from XSDirect $4.80 Can
3 pin connector " " $4.80 Can

Total cost 22.98+ 12.00+9.60= $44.58 can

You still need some aluminum for a heat sink and some wire ( both of which I had on hand)

I prefer to have separate Rectifier and Regulator components rather than the combined single unit. This way if one component fails, its cheaper to replace.

We're Canadians, we're used to paying more Smile

xsleo · Posted: August 7, 2009, 11:39 pm Post subject: Re: rotor testing stator testing

Even with those prices it is less than a combo unit.

pamcopete · Posted: August 8, 2009, 6:31 am Post subject: Re: rotor testing stator testing

RG,

Islanddave doesn't mention the year and model of his bike, but if he fried the reg/rect combo unit, then presumably he has an '80 to '83 model, in which case he would need to use a VR295 from a '70's Chrysler product or it's equivalent. I think that the Chrysler regulator is more readily available in Canada as well.

The other possibility is that he only fried the rectifier half of the reg/rect and he could just do the Radio Shack rectifier mod and continue to use the regulator part of the reg/rect which brings the cost down.

The way to test for this possibility is to do the rectifier mod first and see if it works with the regulator half of the reg/rect.

Retiredgentleman · Posted: August 8, 2009, 10:57 am Post subject: Re: rotor testing stator testing

Pamcopete;
That's good advice Pete, to keep the cost down.

islanddave · Posted: August 8, 2009, 11:45 am Post subject: Re: rotor testing stator testing

Actually it is a 79 xs 650 the reg/rect combo was aftermarket Mikes xs.....it was my fault it failed I blew one of the fuses by shorting out the fuse box then put a too high of an amperage fuse back in because that is all I had (I thought well it will be ok ) well it wasn't!!

Live and learn!

Dave

xsleo · Posted: August 8, 2009, 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: rotor testing stator testing

If he jumped a hot wire to the brushes and got an increase in the battery voltage this would mean the regulator half is the problem, correct? If the rectifier half was bad there would not be an increase in voltage with the jumper wire test, right? This test should point you in the right direction.

pamcopete · Posted: August 8, 2009, 7:30 pm Post subject: Re: rotor testing stator testing

xsleo,

Well, if the rectifier is shorted, then that would draw excessive current from the stator without blowing a fuse because there is no fuse between the stator windings and the rectifier. Could damage the stator windings.

xsleo · Posted: August 8, 2009, 7:40 pm Post subject: Re: rotor testing stator testing

It was just a thought. Didn't think about overloading the stator.

islanddave · Posted: August 8, 2009, 10:06 pm Post subject: Re: rotor testing stator testing

islanddave wrote:

Well i tested the stator today and got the following reading on the white wires in all three combinations 00.7 When the leads of the meter are touched together i get 00.2. These readings have been obtained with the stator removed from the bike and the meter is set on the 200 (first postion from right ohms scale) as seen in the preceeding picture above
So 00.7-00.2=00.5 ohms

The spec for the rotor is 5.25 +/-10 High of 5.77 low 4.72
The spec for the stator is 0.46 +/- 10 High of 0.506 low 0.414

y specs for rotor is 5.2 - 00.2= 5
y spec for stator is 00.7-00.2=00.5

So if I am reading and doing this correctly then both my rotor and stator are within spec.

Is this correct????

Thanks for the help,

Dave

Well here are my readings.I am still wondering if it is a worthwhile endevour to buy the Sparx system................although my readings are within spec i still worry about the charging system crashing in the future?

Thanks Dave

gordo · Posted: August 8, 2009, 11:06 pm Post subject: Re: rotor testing stator testing

Dave, the bike's are old, along with the component's for the charging system. With that said, I, myself have come to rely on the charging system, now that it is working properly. I chased a problem of burning up the rotor's. The PO installed 3 new rotor's, all burnt up for a reason that we could not find, We had the harness out, cleaned all connection's,ect. to no avail. He got fed up with the bike & gave it to me. I put in 2 more rotor's, both burnt up. What I eventually found was a bad ground from the engine to the frame. Repaired that 2 year's ago, & I haven't had a problem since, & it's been 6000 mile's.So the point is that once you get the bike straightened out, they are reliable. A perm. magnet charging system is good, but very expensive. And they have problem's,too.Of course, I do not have a crystal ball(well I do, but it's cracked),allot of us here have installed some kind of a volt meter, so we can monitor the system as we're riding the bike. And the modification's mentioned here are very inexpensive, & reliable.In the vault section, I believe there are post's on all the mods from charging system's, to PamcoPete's iggy, to repairing the tci system on newer model's. Again, that is where to check your work. They have even posted the Knuckle Buster's manual for these machine's.BTW, I have 2 other bike's, not Yamaha's, & this one I find is the most fun. The other 2 are allot bigger.So, in conclusion, I recommend staying with the stock setup, 'cause they are reliable enough as any other bike.,,,Gordo Cool

Retiredgentleman · Posted: August 8, 2009, 11:10 pm Post subject: Re: rotor testing stator testing

Dave, I'd say to stay with the stock set-up and run your bike until a component fails. There's no way of knowing when equipment on a 30 year old bike will fail. Might be tomorrow or might be 3 years from now. Why spend money you don't have to.

There is a trade off on how much you want to spend to increase reliability. I spent less than $50.00 to replace my old rectifier and old regulator (both 31 years old). I consider that money well spent.

xsleo · Posted: August 9, 2009, 3:54 pm Post subject: Re: rotor testing stator testing

Islanddave, yes your specs are ok. replace you regulator and rectfier how ever you choose. $50 or $100 or more it's up to you.

pamcopete · Posted: August 9, 2009, 5:12 pm Post subject: Re: rotor testing stator testing

islanddave,

If in fact the Chrysler VR295 regulator is cheaper in Canada, then it can still be used in a pre '80's model with a simple mod to the brushes involving the use of nylon screws to replace the 3 metal screws that hold the grounded brush and running +12 to that brush. If you have trouble finding the nylon screws, then I have a small stock of them and will send you 4 (one for the one you drop on the floor).

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