Clutch push rod

west24 · Posted: May 22, 2009, 8:22 pm Post subject: Clutch push rod

Getting a 79 roadworthy again. So I took my left side cover off to clean and regrease the worm gear, (horrible clutch pull), I noticed of course the push rod seal is leaking and gunked up. I pulled out the push rod cleaned it but now I wont go all the way back in. I looked at my manual and I dont see anything that can be keeping it from reseating, any ideas?

Retiredgentleman · Posted: May 22, 2009, 9:17 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch push rod

Did you reverse the rod by chance. The pushrod must have the smaller diameter end on the outside, as only the smaller end will fit into the worm gear.

west24 · Posted: May 22, 2009, 9:58 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch push rod

Double checked that, tried putting it in, nothing...I even felt with a small flathead screwdriver, bearing is still there...I dont know, tried pulling RH cover off, bottom left bolt is stripped, not a good day of progress. One step forward and two steps back...Thanks RG appreciate the help...

west24 · Posted: May 23, 2009, 7:57 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch push rod

Here are some pics, Right side of the push rod is fully seated, other pic shows how much the other side is sticking out. Removed all rods and bearings, I know everything is there and nothing extra. I'm lost. Everything look right to you guys??

kingwj · Posted: May 23, 2009, 8:08 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch push rod

Time for a new sprocket.

jayel · Posted: May 23, 2009, 9:03 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch push rod

can you move that clutch side (the mushroom headed pin) by pushing on the rod on the left side? that would find out whether everything is touching each other or if it's hanging up on a ridge in the shaft bore leaving a space between the rods and balls..... second thought do you have the worm gear assembed correctly? 4 ways to do it only one is right

west24 · Posted: May 23, 2009, 9:39 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch push rod

I pulled everything out (pushrods and bearings), nothing is hanging them up. I cant even get the left side case back on with the pressure plate in place, push rod sticks out too much now. Mushroomed tip sits flush right? No spacer or anything? You can see (on the worm side of the rod) where the dirty marks start from the seal leaking, about an inch too long now...worm gear is put back together correctly but it doesnt matter cause I cant even get it on now. I dont think even if I put the left case back on the pressure plate will fit...I'm stuck....

west24 · Posted: May 23, 2009, 9:39 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch push rod

I pulled everything out (pushrods and bearings), nothing is hanging them up. I cant even get the left side case back on with the pressure plate in place, push rod sticks out too much now. Mushroomed tip sits flush right? No spacer or anything? You can see (on the worm side of the rod) where the dirty marks start from the seal leaking, about an inch too long now...worm gear is put back together correctly but it doesnt matter cause I cant even get it on now. I dont think even if I put the left case back on the pressure plate will fit...I'm stuck....

jayel · Posted: May 23, 2009, 9:54 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch push rod

pull it all out and put it back in one piece at a time from the right side, that mushroom piece should stick out maybe a 1/8 of an inch it doesn't ride snug against the shaft

west24 · Posted: May 23, 2009, 10:18 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch push rod

nothing, still sticks out same amount, here are some pics, everything look right? I appreciate the help Jayel...

Retiredgentleman · Posted: May 23, 2009, 10:31 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch push rod

You really have my curiousity up now. Are you using the 2 short pushrods or a single long one? There is absolutely nothing in the hollow shaft that can cause a problem. The long pushrod is 9 and 9/16" long, which means the 2 shorts plus one bearing is also 9 and 9/16".

Do you have a picture of your pushrods?

jayel · Posted: May 23, 2009, 10:32 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch push rod

pic of the rods and ball(s) end to end touching plz.... wait that ball in the worm, is that almost flush with the outside? either adjuster screw is to far in or you've got the wrong ball in there, check those balls not sure if they are all the same size or not ... parts book doesn't give a size for that one

Retiredgentleman · Posted: May 23, 2009, 10:34 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch push rod

jayel, balls are all the same................ .312" or 5/16".

west24 · Posted: May 23, 2009, 11:41 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch push rod

Right at 9 and 9/16ths. Yep worm gear bearing is almost flush but I adjusted the clutch per my manual, screw in till bottoms out, then 1/4 turn out, tighten lock nut. Absolutely nothing inside shaft. Should I back the screw out till it works? Regardless its not the same from when I took it out, I remember the end of the push rod was pretty much sitting flush with the drive sprocket...

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

Is everyone seeing what I'm seeing? There's a ball in the worm gear. Then there's another ball at the inner end of the short shaft and ANOTHER ball at the inner end of the long shaft. That's a total of THREE balls -- and there's only supposed to be TWO: One in the worm gear and another at the inner end of the long shaft. Mike's long-shaft replacement eliminates the ball in the worm gear, leaving only the ball at the inner end of the long shaft.

There's too many balls in the photos. The one in the middle has to go.

jayel · Posted: May 24, 2009, 8:44 am Post subject: Re: Clutch push rod

no his set up is correct, mikes set up eliminates the ball between the two rods NOT the ball in the worm gear, that's the stock setup not mikes long rod, RG's photo shows mikes long rod with the stock setup next to it

you got some splaining to do lucy

west two four look thru that hole see any thing that could cause blockage? like I said try putting the rods in from the right side, short rod, ball, longer rod, ball, then the mushroom clutch plate pusher

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

jayel wrote:

no his set up is correct, mikes set up eliminates the ball between the two rods NOT the ball in the worm gear, that's the stock setup not mikes long rod, RG's photo shows mikes long rod with the stock setup next to it

Here's the sales blurb from Mike's XS:

"Clutch Pushrod ( Long one-piece rod). - Replaces both inner and outer pushrod and outer ball bearing used on 76-84's. Provides more stable action and allows less wear of clutch pushrod seal (Note photo not to scale). Fits: 1970-84 650's. Stock original type for 1970-75 models."

The OUTER ball bearing is the one in the worm gear. Ain't it?

jayel · Posted: May 24, 2009, 9:04 am Post subject: Re: Clutch push rod

nice splaining jimmy, yep that's what it says, but considering that the worm gear ball isn't supposed to come out of the worm mech., if I remember correctly the long rod is the same lenght as the two short rods with one ball in-between them, I wouldn't run it without a ball on both ends, one in the worm, and one between the rod and the plate push rod
mikes description probably needs a tech writer to review it Laughing

jimmer · Posted: May 24, 2009, 9:16 am Post subject: Re: Clutch push rod

The outer ball bearing is the one in the middle Smile

Mikes blurb does not mention the one in the worm gear

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

jayel wrote:

nice splaining jimmy, yep that's what it says, but considering that the worm gear ball isn't supposed to come out of the worm mech., if I remember correctly the long rod is the same lenght as the two short rods with one ball in-between them, I wouldn't run it without a ball on both ends, one in the worm, and one between the rod and the plate push rod. mikes description probably needs a tech writer to review it Laughing

ikes "Clutch Push Screw and Housing Assembly Kit" doesn't show a ball bearing in the worm. Neither does the exploded view of the worm on page 78 in my Clymer book (8th edition, 16th printing, August 2006).

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

OK -- I went out and looked in the left-side cover of my '81. There IS a ball inside that worm. Still, Mike's drawing doesn't show it and the Clymer drawing doesn't show it. So maybe I should take it out and throw it away? Shocked

jayel · Posted: May 24, 2009, 1:07 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch push rod

only if you start a new thread on why your clutch doesn't work and why the end of your clutch rod turned blue and is it supposed to be welded to the worm lever?

steelburner · Posted: May 24, 2009, 1:50 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch push rod

I'm sure this isn't part of your problem, but Mike's XS has (under its "Tips" page), tips on the replacement of the pushrod seal and the pushrod bushing. While you're working with that clutch stuff you might want to spend a few $$ more and do it right.

The tech tips show him working with the two-piece pushrod; if you decide to go with the one-piece rod, there'll be one less ball in the assembly and, of course, just one pushrod.

Also, 650 Central has a clutch cable replacement that users swear by. It's supposed to give greatly-reduced clutch pull. After you get it all to fit back together, you might consider the easy-pull cable, too.

xsleo · Posted: May 24, 2009, 1:53 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch push rod

There should be one ball in the worm screw. The books don't show it as a seperate piece, it is staked in at three spots. After a few years the staking gets worn and the ball can fall out.
When you adjusted the adjuster screw did you do it with the left cover on the bike? If you did it with the cover pff the adjuster is way to tight. Back the adjuster way out. put everything back together.
To properly adjust the clutch, screw the cable adjuster on the handle bar lever all the way in, so the cable is as loose as it can get.
Now turn the adjuster screw in the cover in untill you feel a slight resistance, back of 1/8 of a turn, it works better than 1/4 turn.
Now at the lever adjust the cable untill there is about 1/8 inch of freeplay, so you can pull the cable back gently 1/8 inch.
This should get your clutch working.

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