Yamaha RD/RZ permanent magnet alternator on XS650 - WIRING

sesamharold

I received questions about the correct wiring when a YAMAHA RD/RZ-model alternator with permanent magnets substitutes the original XS charging system. So I post it here for everyone to see, hoping it can be of good use for you one day.

I ride a XS650, 447 model, and I only know about this models electrical system, so all the following modifications refer to the 447-type.

1. alternator

You can use the alternator of any YAMAHA RD or RZ 250 or 350 LC (liquid cooled) model. Actually, Yamaha´s RD and RZ are more or less the same models, the different type names were depending on year and country. Also, the YPVS-model`s alternators will do.

The RD/RZ generator unit is both, A. C. alternator AND magneto CDI. You will only use the alternator function for your XS650.

Usually 9 wires come out of this RD-unit:

1. green
2. brown
3. red (sometimes red/white)

Those three wires no. 1. to 3. are from the ignition charge coil - you do not need them for your XS generator modification. Cut them off.

4. red/white
5. green/white

Those two wires no. 4. to 5. are from the ignition pick-up coil - you do not need them for your XS generator modification. Cut them off.

6. black

This black wire is ground and should be connected to the battery ground/earth.

7. white
8. white
9. white

Those three wires no. 7. to 9. are the phases (stator coils), usually named U - V - W. Those three white wires have to be connected to the three white wires of the regulator/rectifier-unit (see below). The sequence does not matter, there is no proper sequence for the three phases.

The original RD/RZ plug on those three white wires may also contain a blue or lightblue wire. This one goes to the neutral switch of the RD, you do not need this for your alternator modification.

By the way, the stator coil resistance should be between 0.32 and 0.48 ohms, measuring U to V, V to W and U to W.

2. regulator/rectifier-unit

Other than the XS650 447 type, Yamaha´s RD/RZ-models to not have separated regulator and rectifier, but an integrated regulator/rectifier unit.

The most common one is this one here:
manufacturer SHINDENGEN KOUGYOU, model SH 235-12C

Only some late year RD/RZ models made in Brazil have a SHINDENGEN KOUGYOU SH 569 unit, which should work here as well.

anufacturers name and model name is printed on the regulator/rectifier unit, so it should be easy for you to identify the correct part for your modification.

Regulator/rectifier-unites from other manufacturers may do it also, so I post here the technical key data for the RD/RZ-unit:

regulator: short circuit type, regular voltage 14.5 V +/- 0.5 V

rectifier: 3-phase full wave type, output 15 A, withstand voltage 200 V

The unit has 5, sometimes 6 wires:

1. red

This wire goes via a 20 A fuse to the battery plus.

2. black

This wire is ground and therefore goes to the battery minus.

3. white
4. white
5. white

Those three white wires have to be connected to the three white wires from the alternator unit.

6. brown (only on some units!)

This wire goes to the ignition key, supplying power when ignition is ON and engine running.

3. additional information

There is plenty of technical information about the RD- and RZ-models to find on the www. Have a look at this french website, I think this is the best one for this purpose here:

www.rd350lc.net

Go to "DOWNLOAD" => Workshop Manual => Electrical (on the section index).

Pages 7-14 to 7-20 are about the RD-charging system, all in english, french and german. Pages 7-14 and 7-19 give you the wiring diagrams of the RD as descibed above.

kingwj

Curious, how do you time the ignition with this system? Scribe a mark at TDC or something? Is it a bolt-on modification, i.e., is the taper the same, mounting holes, etc.

Looks like an option if my alternator goes south.

sesamharold

See this:

www.650rider.com/index...2935#42935

xsleo

i have been following this and other threads about swapping to a permanate magnet alternator. the only advantage that i can see is, 1 - no battery needed, 2- no brushes. correct? the swap looks to have problems. getting the right parts and getting them to work together. also won't a p/m alternator take more hp to run than the stock alternator. the stock alternator only makes max output when needed, the p/m alternator makes max output all the time. wouldn't this take more hp from engine. i know most other bikes use a p/m alternator, so maybe i'm just nit picking.

Everything_To_Xs

No brushes
Possible to have no battery
No going camping in very low temperatures to find out the cold weather has drained your battery and your bike wont start just kick it and away you go.

No battery running dead while riding. which has happend on all my Xs's even after everything has been replaced. Xs's are lovely bikes but from my experience with them, the electrics are just useless.

sesamharold

xsleo wrote:

i have been following this and other threads about swapping to a permanate magnet alternator. the only advantage that i can see is, 1 - no battery needed, 2- no brushes. correct? the swap looks to have problems. getting the right parts and getting them to work together. also won't a p/m alternator take more hp to run than the stock alternator. the stock alternator only makes max output when needed, the p/m alternator makes max output all the time. wouldn't this take more hp from engine. i know most other bikes use a p/m alternator, so maybe i'm just nit picking.

Well, all that you mention here is partly true, but these are not the main reasons / advantages for changing to the RD charging systems.

Yes, no more brushes, and yes, you could dispense with the battery, although only two german XSers I know who did so. Also true, that "theoretically" it takes hp from the engine - but you will never feel it, I guess not even meter it. Especially with a big bore engine like mine.

To get the RD/RZ parts isn´t a problem at all, especially at ebay.

In my opinion there are two main advantages for changing the XS to the RD charging system:

1. expenses, especially in the long run
The XS rotor is known to get damaged sooner or later. That is because of the ageing of the rotor windings insulation material and / or the "good vibrations" of our "shakers". Over the decades the insulation material gets brittle, so the rotor windings likely will internally shorten or break.

In that case - which from my experience is quite a common damage - you can either renew your XS rotor (price in Germany for re-coiling is around 100 to 120 Euro) or buy a new rotor (price in Germany between 140 and 180 Euro).

The complete RD charging system is second hand around 100 Euro, that is
- 50 for alternator (stator and rotor/flywheel)
- 30 for regulator / rectifier unit
- 15 for adapter plate
In addition to that it is strongly recommended to buy a special flywheel puller in order not to damage the rotor magnets when taking off the rotor; price new around 5 Euro.

All these components seem to be more reliable than the original XS stuff. Have a look at the RD/RZ internet communities.

2. output
The RD-system gives better output at low rpm. This might be appreciated on XS with some electronic ignition systems like Boyer, as some people I know experienced problems with the original XS charging system. Because when starting your engine with the electric starter (not kicker) it might be that the voltage drops down to 7 volts which is not enough for the electronic ignition to run properly.

I hope you understand what I tried to explain .... again, it´s not my native language.

P.S.:
Personally, for me is one more aspect important, which is totally emotionally and not rational at all: I can modify something on my bike? Yes, then I want to do it. I simply love to work on my bikes in my garage, it´s my hobby. And when I look at all the member photos on this website, then I know you surely understand what I am talking about! Wink

xsleo

you make a good point on "can i modify my bike, yes i can" right now my alternator and reg an rect are working ok. i have a rec/rect out of an 82 seca i will put on to prevent any problems with charging. but if the rotor or stator crap out i will consider the p/m swap.

yamaman

Just thought I'd bring this one back, there seems to be a few alternator q's at the mo. Might help some.....

yamaman

sschering

Thought I'd post a link to this Reg/Rectifier list from The GS Resource site.
The Suzuki GS's used the same type shunting rectifier/regulator as the RD/RZ setup..

So the good units for a GS should also work for this mod..

www.thegsresources.com...p?t=134690

The preferred unit for the GS folks is a 50a rated FET based regulator from 07+ Yamaha R1, 07+ FJR1300 and 07+ snowmobiles .
They say due to it's more efficient FET design it can still provide full power at idle when the old SCR types can't..
Shindengen FH-012 12V
www.shindengen.com/res...20Data.pdf

The GS list also notes field regulated units they want to avoid but would work in our stock XS alternators.

dpmphoto

There are many parts that you can use for a perm magnet alt on the xs. The yamaha banshee rotor/flywheel is a must it has been made without changes for about 20 years,you'll need one of these. you'll also need a 3 phase stator.www. electrosport.com is a good place to check out stators,many will fit you need a 3 phase 103mm by 42mm by 20mm.Next a new banshee adjustable timing plate $35 bucks on ebay.Last but not least a 3 phase re/rect.

crosley

Perhaps I've overlooked it, but I have the Pamco electronic ignition on my 81. Is the flywheel, stator, reg/rec and stator bracket all that I need to do this or is there anything else I will need to do?

rhilker

Sounds like there are alternatives.

This is something i would invest in if available from MikesXS with new or reconditioned parts (with instructions) and maybe in combination with the Pamco.

I'm not good at McGyvering stuff and to buy used off ebay is a crap shoot.

The advatages are obvious.

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