To tube, or not to tube?

jerseyjew · Full Member Joined: Mar 28, 2008 Posts: 48

I have a 78 XS650SE with the mag wheels. I recently noticed a huge cut in the rear tire, so now I have to replace it. I have yet to remove the tire so I am unsure if the bike is running a tube or not. The rim is not stamped "TUBELESS", but it is stamped 3.0X16 MT. I have read that the MT means it is tubeless, but I am not quite sure. Any suggestions?

jayel · Posted: May 18, 2008, 9:43 pm Post subject: Re: To tube, or not to tube?

yes MT is tubeless rated

Retiredgentleman · Posted: May 18, 2008, 10:26 pm Post subject: Re: To tube, or not to tube?

I have the same model as you 78 SE with the cast aluminum wheels. My rear wheel has several stampings, "MT 3.00 X 16" and "suitable for tubeless tires". When I checked my front wheel it does not have the stamping "suitable for tubeless tires". These are the original stock wheels. Curious why one wheel has the stamping and the other does not?? Just another bit of XS650 trivia. Regardless, I use tubeless tires on both wheels.

oldskoolcool · Full Member Joined: Sep 08, 2007 Posts: 372

i run tubeless on my mag and it doesn't say tubeless on it.

Joseph · Full Member Joined: May 22, 2007 Posts: 767 Location: NY

I have an 80 special wheni went to take the back ruber off it looke like there was a tube in there. would the tubed tires have a valve conected to the tube coming through the rim and not on the rim ?

jerseyjew · Full Member Joined: Mar 28, 2008 Posts: 48

Well I got the tire bead broke tonight and there is definitely a tube in the rear tire. I am going to put another tube in and keep it on the safe side, but I do not know what size tube to get. I am having trouble getting the tire off of the rim so I was just planning on dropping the new tire and tube at a local shop. How do I know what size tube to get. There are way too many choices for a 16" hahah.

Joseph · Full Member Joined: May 22, 2007 Posts: 767 Location: NY

xs john do you currently have a tube on your rear rim. I have a new tire and i'm just waiting for $ to have it put on the rim.

royfisk · Posted: May 20, 2008, 8:15 am Post subject: Re: To tube, or not to tube?

pretty simple just get the same size tube as your tire

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

Yes, Joseph -- inner tubes come with the valve ON the TUBE, and the valve sticks out through a hole in the rim. On spoked wheels, there's also a circular rubber boot that lays flat against the spoked surface of the rim and protects the tube from chafing on the spoke ends/nuts.

The tube's valve stem and that rubber boot are two things you have to look out for when you assemble a tube-type tire on the rim. If there's a wrinkle in that boot, or if the boot doesn't completely cover the spoke ends, or if the valve stem doesn't line up with the hole perfectly, you're assembling a wheel that will blow-out in a very short time. Anything that chafes the tube will put you 'longside the road for certain -- if the blow-out doesn't kill you.

Back in the fifties and sixties, guys used to sprinkle talcum powder inside the tire to help protect the tube from chafing. I been on tubeless tires ever since they became standard, so I don't know if the tubers still use talcum powder or not -- maybe they got something better by now. I wouldn't go back to tube-type tires for a truckload of The Glenlivet XXV.

royfisk · Posted: May 20, 2008, 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: To tube, or not to tube?

well jimmy did you know that more then likely your mag wheels are not tubeless and require tubes? If your not running them you may experience a blow out? Tubeless rims will state it on the spoke of the mag wheel. Ive only come across a couple that were tubeless. The non tubeless wheels have a different bead seat which does not properly hold tires without tubes. So be careful before the blowout kills you.

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

Don't get me wrong, wroy! I ain't afraid to ride tube-type tires. I did ride 'em for years before the tubeless option came along. I jus HATE fixin' them punks when they go flat, though. I like to be able to get out the aerosol can 'o tire goop and blow that tire up enough to get in somewhere off the road and let a tire shop to the job.

Another thing -- I have to put a tube-type tire back together about six times before I git the chore done without pinching another hole in the tube. Embarassed

Jeezuz K. Rist I hate tube-type tires! Evil or Very Mad

About my own mag wheels -- this bike had 50,000 miles on it when I bought it. If them mag wheels won't hold a tubeless tire, the PO would surely have figured that out by now. Mr. Green

royfisk · Posted: May 20, 2008, 2:39 pm Post subject: Re: To tube, or not to tube?

I just letting you know that if they don't say tubeless then they need tubes before someone else puts it together and don't get as lucky as you have been. You know that they need tubes if you get hurt from refusing to run them then shame on you but if someone who doesn't know better gets hurt or killed on the recommendation of you then how you gonna feel. I have seen tires peel off the wheel do to this, Do you know where it happens? HIGH SPEED IN THE CORNERS. maybe you don't knee drag in the corners but that does not mean that (johnny don't know no better) isn't going to.

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

I'm sorry Roy. I thought you were pulling my leg.

No. I didn't know about the mag wheels that won't take tubeless tires. I never encountered any like that, so I just assumed that any mag wheel was tubeless.

I meant every word of what I said about tube-type tires, though. I really don't like 'em and if I had tube-type rims, I'd pitch 'em.

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

About knee-draggin' the corners. . . . Been there done that. Once off the high-side is enough for me. And guys who do that anywheres OFF THE TRACK are gonna be lucky if they live long enough to have a blowout.

royfisk · Posted: May 20, 2008, 3:04 pm Post subject: Re: To tube, or not to tube?

Note;
tubeless tires don't mean that you cant run tubes, It is just stating that the tire is suitable for tubeless applications, But don't try to run tube type tires tubeless. Always run a tube on a non tubeless rim. Life is to short to gamble on this. A good friend of mine crashed a 78 se back in 83-84 somewhere do to this so yes it is a touchy subject for me . He was 19 years old going full throttle off of a long straight away into a relatively sharp corner when the front tire came off the wheel. luckily he was beside a open airport and went down in the sand, but suffered a broken arm, leg and a con cushion, which led to minor brain damage. All over a $15.00 inner tube. Upon inspection of the bike there was no punctures or tears on the tire just came off the wheel. He still owns several bikes but does not ride after the accident.

royfisk · Posted: May 20, 2008, 3:11 pm Post subject: Re: To tube, or not to tube?

Jimmy come to your senses guy. Theres allot of young riders here on this site that no matter what anyone says are going to run there bikes to the max, thats what kids do and some of us older riders. Why would you even suggest a unsafe condition to them? Your a experienced rider and I know that you have a wealth of knowledge under your belt. But I cant understand why you would not encourage a safe motorcycle.

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

Roy -- What sort of unsafe behavior did I encourage and where did I encourage it?

Joseph asked: "would the tubed tires have a valve conected to the tube coming through the rim and not on the rim ?"

And I answered: "Yes, Joseph -- inner tubes come with the valve ON the TUBE, and the valve sticks out through a hole in the rim. On spoked wheels, there's also a circular rubber boot that lays flat against the spoked surface of the rim and protects the tube from chafing on the spoke ends/nuts.

"The tube's valve stem and that rubber boot are two things you have to look out for when you assemble a tube-type tire on the rim. If there's a wrinkle in that boot, or if the boot doesn't completely cover the spoke ends, or if the valve stem doesn't line up with the hole perfectly, you're assembling a wheel that will blow-out in a very short time. Anything that chafes the tube will put you 'longside the road for certain -- if the blow-out doesn't kill you.

"Back in the fifties and sixties, guys used to sprinkle talcum powder inside the tire to help protect the tube from chafing. I been on tubeless tires ever since they became standard, so I don't know if the tubers still use talcum powder or not -- maybe they got something better by now. I wouldn't go back to tube-type tires for a truckload of The Glenlivet XXV."

Roy again -- I've been wrong before and you know that, and you also know that when I'm wrong I always admit it. So tell me what part of that post encourages unsafe behavior?

drifter · Posted: May 20, 2008, 3:19 pm Post subject: Re: To tube, or not to tube?

If you look at the Yamaha OEM parts site: www.yamaha-motor.com/s...home.aspx, you can see if the wheels take tubes or not. I looked regarding my 78 and sure enough it requires tubes. Even though I know guys who run tubeless on tube type rims, I believe I will trust the manufacturer. If Yamaha says run tubes, I am running tubes.

Dave

royfisk · Posted: May 20, 2008, 3:46 pm Post subject: Re: To tube, or not to tube?

jimmythetrucker wrote:

Don't get me wrong, wroy! I ain't afraid to ride tube-type tires. I did ride 'em for years before the tubeless option came along. I jus HATE fixin' them punks when they go flat, though. I like to be able to get out the aerosol can 'o tire goop and blow that tire up enough to get in somewhere off the road and let a tire shop to the job.

Another thing -- I have to put a tube-type tire back together about six times before I git the chore done without pinching another hole in the tube. Embarassed

Jeezuz K. Rist I hate tube-type tires! Evil or Very Mad

About my own mag wheels -- this bike had 50,000 miles on it when I bought it. If them mag wheels won't hold a tubeless tire, the PO would surely have figured that out by now. Mr. Green

royfisk · Posted: May 20, 2008, 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: To tube, or not to tube?

I think that this post is telling people that tubes are evil? On the contrary tubes are not evil, as a matter of fact there not even hard to install, cant remember last time i pinched a tube either removing from or installing onto a machine. I care about the people on this site and if I see something that is unsafe I tell you about it. Theres young people who are here to learn, they don't need to find out the hard way that running tubeless on a tube type wheel is dangerous. I have nothing against you Jimmy and do respect your position. But think that just because the po did it ask yourself one question. Did he just get lucky? My ass is worth more then the $15.00 price of a tube.

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

My message was "I don't like tube-type tires worf a s*** all day long." NOWHERE does it state or even hint that tubeless tires can be installed on tube-type rims. NOWHERE do I see it hint that tube-type tires are evil.

But I see we have semantical and syntactical discrepancies. So I agree that you are right and I am wrong but, thanks to certain First Amendment decisions by the U.S. Supreme Court, hyperbole is protected speech and I am not in violation of the law. It's no big deal to me even so. My own ass has never been worth a $15 inner tube. My ass was born broke; My ass has been broke all o' my life and besides: my hemorrhoids are killing me.

jimmy

royfisk · Posted: May 20, 2008, 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: To tube, or not to tube?

didn't mean to offend you Jim

jerseyjew · Full Member Joined: Mar 28, 2008 Posts: 48

Wow this post went south fast, haha.. Sorry fellas I did not mean to spark such a touchy subject. On the contrary, I just got done ordering my new Bridgestone Spitfire S11 rear wheel (130/90 R16) with a matching Bridgestone tube. The tube was only $10. I picked everything up from bikebandit.com. Thank you for everyones help!

I found this image from yamahas website. I am guessing that at some point in 1978 they made a 650SE and a 650SF. The SF wheels were indetical except for the fact that they are made to be ran tubeless. The SE still requires tubes.

royfisk · Posted: May 20, 2008, 6:18 pm Post subject: Re: To tube, or not to tube?

nice but not 100% correct my 78 sf is a tube type wheel. But I am glad you got one. the factory warning says it all.

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