Clutch problems

jerseyjew · Full Member Joined: Mar 28, 2008 Posts: 48

Ok, let me first start off by saying that I am new to the forum and the 650 twins. I am aware of the numerous threads already created on clutch problems, but I am still a little lost when it comes to the adjustments and possible problems with my clutch.

I have a 78 Special which pretty much has an unknown amount of miles, but I know it is a pretty high number. I rode the bike for a couple of months and didn't really have many problems. I recently rebuilt the front forks while replacing both sprockets, chain, and the rear shocks. I also changed the oil with some fresh 20w-50. After putting everything back together I am having trouble finding neutral on the bike. I put the bike on the center stand while running and shift into first and the rear tire starts spinning like a madman. I can stop the tire with my foot and hold it still and the bike will continue to run, but it obviously isn't operating correctly.

I am assuming the lock nut and screw the manual speaks of is on the left crankcase cover, hidden by a chrome cover about the size of a 1/2 dollar (maybe a little bigger). The only other adjustment I have is directly on the clutch lever. I did what the manual stated but am still having no luck. What, if any, parts should I start throwing at it to fix this problem.

I apologize for the long post and thank you in advance for any suggestions!

-Joe

jayel · Posted: March 29, 2008, 4:08 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch problems

the wheel spinning is normal almost all chain driven bikes will do it, to set the clutch loosen the 12 or 13mm nut under that 1/2 dollar cover (squeeze the clutch lever when you loosen it to keep the cable from popping out at the bottom) loosen the cable adjuster at the handle bar (slack) move the screw portion of the adjuster in until you feel resistance (touching) tighten nut then adjust at the handlebar to about 1/8 in. or less freeplay in the cable if you still have problems with the clutch hard to find netural ect. you may need to start switching parts the needle bearing, worm adjuster, and one piece pushrod mikesXS sells are a good beginning if you have any oil leaks then the seals also you didn't say what oil you used but if it was a automotive tpye it would have friction modifiers in it that will affect your clutch (see oil threads)

mlcarter815 · Full Member Joined: Jul 03, 2007 Posts: 64

Last summer my clutch developed the normal leak associated with the 2 clutch pushrods that they put in these bikes in the factory. I replaced these with the single, long pushrod, bushing, and new seal. $17 fix. Easy right? Well, we went to adjust the clutch adjuster nut and the previous owner must have torgued the nut down. When we finally broke it loose, the worm screw also broke. So I ordered a new aduster kit and leftside gasket. The weather finally warmed up a few weeks ago, and I took the bike out for a spin. After riding for about 20 min, the clutch started dragging really badly. So I ordered a new set of needle bearings for the right side. While we had the rightside cover off, we found that one of the steel clutch plates was severely warped and blued. It had gone through extreme heat at one time. A couple of the other steel plates looked like that they had high-spots on them. I assume that was a factory mistake. So my $17 oil leak fix has turned into around $100.

jerseyjew · Full Member Joined: Mar 28, 2008 Posts: 48

Well I tried adjusting it the way that is mentioned in the manual, and as described in the 2nd post, yet I still haven't had much luck. What side do I have to attack to get to the needle bearing and replace the two short push rods with the long single push rods? I will try adjusting it again to see what I can figure out from that! Man this is aggravating!

jimmythetrucker · Full Member Joined: Mar 12, 2008 Posts: 1283

The 20-50 oil will NOT be a problem. I ran 20-50 GTX in every 4-stroke Japanese motorcycle I've ever owned (since 1970) and never had any trouble with it.

The problem stated in the first post sounds like a frayed and stretched clutch cable to me. After three or four of the wires fray and break the cable stretches radically and continually, and it stretches as fast as you can adjust it until it finally breaks completely.

The wheel spinning in neutral on the center stand means nothing. It's perfectly normal. Hard-to-find neutral is a bad clutch adjustment or a stretched and frayed cable that is about to break. I went through four or five cables on my old '79. It was always the same symptom.

y experience was that the wear always shows up at the top of the cable where it frays as it rubs against the lever and inside that slotted adjuster stud. Pull those rubber boots off the clutch lever. Grip the lever and pull it back to the handlebar and watch the cable as you do so. I'd almost bet there's fraying present. If you see even one frayed or broken wire, replace the cable. Your problem will go away.

nj1639 · Posted: March 30, 2008, 7:44 am Post subject: Re: Clutch problems

Yeah, check the cable and the way it's routed.
Before you go throwing parts at your bike.......
I'd take the right side cover off and inspect the basket springs for length and tension, inspect the clutch plates for warp and wear. You'll need an impact wrench. While the oil is drained you might as well check the lower sump filter and clean that up. So far no money outlay and it won't take long to do.
If you're going to replace the pushrod you'll need both side covers off. There's a reason for the design of the pushrods with the ball bearings and if you don't see any wear on the ends of the rods or where the mushroom hits the clutch I wouldn't replace it. Make sure the worm gear is lubed well and the plastic's not cracked.
If you get that far along you'll have a better understanding of how the whole clutch set up works, and that's a good thing.
The manual says that when you adjust the clutch at the worm gear you should back the adjuster 1/4 turn before setting the lock nut. There's a reason for that, so do it.
Jersey boy, eh?

xsjohn · Posted: March 30, 2008, 7:56 am Post subject: Re: Clutch problems

When and if you get the clutch as good as you can you might try getting the handle bar lever to open a bit farther to give the whole thing a bit more travel.....I filed on the part that goes on the handle bar to allow the lever to swing out another 1/2 inch or so.....guess if you were careful you could just bend the lever out a bit........worked for me to give it a better clutch....another half or even an inch goes a long way (pun intended)....

xsjohn

jerseyjew · Full Member Joined: Mar 28, 2008 Posts: 48

Well I just put everything back together. I took off th left side cover, removed the clutch assembly and cleaned and relubed everything. I am not missing any ball bearings, and the worm gear plastic and metal both seem to be in good shape with no cracks. I already replaced the oil last week and inspected the sump filter, so I really don't have the time to drain it and pull the right covers. I am about to go for a ride and see how she performs. Thanks for everybodys help. This site is very useful!
-joe

and yep as mentioned, I'm a jersey boy. Although I am currently residing in Delaware.

kingwj · Posted: March 30, 2008, 3:21 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch problems

Where in Delaware? Finally another First Stater.

jerseyjew · Full Member Joined: Mar 28, 2008 Posts: 48

Well I just got from a ride and the clutch seems to be operating pretty good, not perfect, but good. It goes into first just fine and doesn't want to stall while
holding the clutch in. The only problem is neutral is hard to find once stopped. I can put it neutral no problem while rolling. If I rev the bike a tiny bit while stopped I can slip the bike into neutral as well. Oh well, I'm happy. I am gonna give the cable a good look over and try to relube it. As for being in Delaware. I am right in Dover! How about yourself king?

kingwj · Posted: March 30, 2008, 6:05 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch problems

New Castle.

The needle bearing that goes behind the clutch basket can cause neutral to be a bit difficult to locate. MikesXS has a replacement with more rollers and it helped a bunch on my bike.

jerseyjew · Full Member Joined: Mar 28, 2008 Posts: 48

Sounds good. When I plan on ripping the right side of the bike apart I will definitely look into replacing whatever needs it.

The only other gripes I have with the bike are the tapping noises (which seems like it is common with the 650) even though the valve clearances are correct. And the bike will hesitate or miss when I really get on the throttle up above 5k RPM. Could timing be the culprit for this? Or maybe the plugs?

mlcarter815 · Full Member Joined: Jul 03, 2007 Posts: 64

How about my turn? As I posted above, I have replaced everything but the clutch basket myself. My clutch doesn't drag as bad as it used to, but it still does a little. When I have the clutch in, decelerating, and down shifting, every time i drop to a lower gear, my tach jumps about 500 rpms even with the clutch engaged. After a while, the clutch heats up and the bike won't go into neutral, and it won't rock back and forth with the clutch lever pulled. We lubed the cable, and ran it as straight as possible to the clutch. The adjuster nut is turned between 1/4 and 1/2 a turn from complete slack. Any change at all and the clutch either won't disengage or the bike wants to drag you across the garage.

List of new parts:

long push rod (with seals and bushing)
drive plates
2 steel plates
needle bearing with thrust washer
clutch springs
shorter clutch cable (lubed)
clutch push screw assembly and housing

all parts are from mikesxs

Cooltouch · Posted: April 2, 2008, 10:18 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch problems

MLCarter, I'm in the same boat as you with my clutch. Drives me nuts. As a result, I take my bike out for only short jaunts -- like less than 20 minutes of riding or so, or else I can't get the damn thing into neutral at a stop light unless I kill the motor.

5twins had some good advice. I think he posted it over at the Garage rather than here. I haven't tried it yet, though. Instead, I scored a complete clutch basket assembly off eBay. I'm gonna try 5twins adjustment recommendations, but I don't hold out much hope. Then I'll swap the clutches out. I'll report back to the board regarding my results.

Best,

ichael

xsjohn · Posted: April 2, 2008, 10:35 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch problems

The XS is kinda of a kick it into neutral before you stop kinda bike once it gets hot......did you try more swing outward in the clutch lever........if you didn't ......no body ever does.......makes mine tolerable.........and can forget about it mostly........if you are trying to get it perfect and succeed let me know how you did it.........

xsjohn

Retiredgentleman · Posted: April 2, 2008, 11:12 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch problems

I hear on different posts about riders wanting to put bike in neutral at stop lights. From a safety point of view its recommended to keep your bike in gear when stopped.........you never know when you need to move quickly.
Not trying to preach.............just my opinion.

xsjohn · Posted: April 2, 2008, 11:44 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch problems

Might be a good idea.......when I pull into the drive way ......sometimes the wife wants to hit me for riding so long......all this womens lib and crap......would Hillary hit me too.........maybe beat me to a pulp and then beat the pulp.....?

xsjohn

Retiredgentleman · Posted: April 2, 2008, 11:55 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch problems

John, for sure on needing a quick get-away in case the wife should throw something large and heavy like a frying pan!

xsjohn · Posted: April 3, 2008, 12:02 am Post subject: Re: Clutch problems

That might be a good reason to increase the harem......at least they would be glad to see you and throw something at you softer .......

xsjohn

mlcarter815 · Full Member Joined: Jul 03, 2007 Posts: 64

I don't put it in neutral when I'm at a stop light, but I like to do it before i shut of the motor.

Cooltouch · Posted: April 3, 2008, 12:07 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch problems

Retiredgentleman wrote:

I hear on different posts about riders wanting to put bike in neutral at stop lights. From a safety point of view its recommended to keep your bike in gear when stopped.........you never know when you need to move quickly.
Not trying to preach.............just my opinion.

Yeah, I know about this. Problem with a dragging clutch, though, even with the lever pulled in all the way, the bike still creeps forward and will die if I don't give it gas, which makes it want to creep forward even harder. It's not much fun fighting the bike while waiting through a long red light.

Best,

ichael

5twins · Full Member Joined: Aug 05, 2006 Posts: 1616

You gotta install that eBay clutch Smile

I really think the P.O. screwed things up with his parts swapping. Many of us suffer from clutch problems on these bikes but yours are particularly bad. Mine will "jump" slightly and stall the first time I drop in in gear sometimes after sitting for several days but I think that might be the plates sticking from setting. When it gets hot, neutral is harder to find but it doesn't pull with the clutch in at stops. Even with the new clutch, I still recommend using that snug adjustment and the method I outlined in the other thread. For the rest of you, here's a link .....

xs650temp.proboards29....1204157304

All I can say is try it. If it doesn't work or makes things worse, you can always go back to your old settings and method of adjustment.

jayel · Posted: April 3, 2008, 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch problems

I must have the only XS clutch in the world that works right, doesn't drag doesn't slip, lever pulls easy, and can find neutral hot or cold I attribute it to a clear conscience, ------------ or maybe it's just Alzheimer's kicking in

Retiredgentleman · Posted: April 3, 2008, 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch problems

jayel, you're not the only one..........I'm also one of the very few that has a clutch that works perfect...........I think its due to my clean living Rolling Eyes

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