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xs650 > > Motorcycle Systems > > Engine > > Oil pump reassembly |
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pumps 650Rider Supporter
Joined: May 29, 2007 Posts: 1993 Location: Kansas City, Missouri, U.S.A.- 1977 XS650 "D" Standard
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Posted: October 12, 2009, 9:19 am Post subject: Oil pump reassembly |
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I'm working on a spare right side cover to install at a later date. One with a sight glass. Taking this thing apart for inspection. Looking at the oil pump and see how it works I notice some arrows on the innards. Of course I didn't see how they were when it came apart. Looking thru a manual I have here on my work computer I don't see much on the oil pump and no reference to re-assembly any certain way. Did a search thru the posts here and haven't found anything either.
First, what am I looking for in terms of wear if I need to replace something .
Second is there a correct way it should go back together? I assume they put those little arrows on there for some reason?
_________________ You don't HAVE to be crazy to run into burning buildings, but it HELPS!
On an XS you won't pass yourself on the road everyday.
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xsjohn Full Member
Joined: Jul 30, 2006 Posts: 5857 Location: North Carolina USSA
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Posted: October 12, 2009, 12:46 pm Post subject: Re: Oil pump reassembly |
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Surely the arrows line up.........on assembly just make sure the pump doesn't bind........turns freely.....if it does move or flip the parts (impellers) around till it doesn't bind......here is how to set the side clearance and smooth ths sides of the impellers...........good side clearnce increases flow...........
Smooth the sides of the impellers on sandpaper first then....Sand aluminum cover on flat surface with sandpaper.......turning the cover and measuring often........you hold tthe straight edge across the cover with the impellers inside of it and then use a feeler guage to see how far the impellers are indented in the case....... 2 thousands is good........
xsjohn
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xsjohn Full Member
Joined: Jul 30, 2006 Posts: 5857 Location: North Carolina USSA
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Posted: October 12, 2009, 3:08 pm Post subject: Re: Oil pump reassembly |
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Use no sealer on the impeller case........it will increase the side clearance and reduce the efficiency of the pump.................
xsjohn
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pumps 650Rider Supporter
Joined: May 29, 2007 Posts: 1993 Location: Kansas City, Missouri, U.S.A.- 1977 XS650 "D" Standard
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Posted: October 13, 2009, 3:28 pm Post subject: Re: Oil pump reassembly |
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John, Not sure what to do about getting the small impeller back on as it was ..I've no idea how it came off. I did re-assemble everything to see how it goes and I understand about closing up the gap on the cover to get better efficiency. The arrows , as I look at the side cover , open side up, do they go up or down or does it matter? I can't tell which face of the small impeller was against the cover as there is a wear ring where I think it ran against the shaft. It all looks ok. Before I get done with it I will sand the cover to get the clearance as you suggest.
The big gear has an indentation on one side that I think goes down against the pump cover....Mine actually looks like in a small spot on the pump cover that there was some sealer...Maybe a PO put some loctite on that nut? Something on there looks like.
What are the differences between the stock pump and the high performance one mike sells. Must be a big deal for the $185 price tag.
_________________ You don't HAVE to be crazy to run into burning buildings, but it HELPS!
On an XS you won't pass yourself on the road everyday.
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xsjohn Full Member
Joined: Jul 30, 2006 Posts: 5857 Location: North Carolina USSA
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Posted: October 13, 2009, 7:17 pm Post subject: Re: Oil pump reassembly |
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High performance pump has wider impellers.........with 75 thou on mine and a paper oil filter (slows flow 15-20 percent) and a top end cooler and intake valve tip oilers I have never seen anything inside the engine that looked oil starved........and I run the stock pump.....
Not sure about the marks.........I lightly sanded the sides of the impellers on a flat surface to reduce the manufacturers grooves and then set the side clearance at .002 thou..............
Just install the impellers the way it makes since to you and then spin the pump once it's installed........if it doesn't catch then go for it.....if so move them around till it doesn't....the impellers are symmetrical so all will be good......
Setting side clearance..........rotate the cover (the one you took off) as you sand it so you get it the same all the way around.......""go slow""...........measure frequently......and maybe the side clearance is good already............won't know unless you measure it......
When I did mine about 55 thou ago there was a slight catch as I spun it when I finnished and put it together......so like I said above I changed the impellers around and the second time there was no catch....... been that was way since.........mine had no marks.....
xsjohn
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Teebs Full Member
Joined: Aug 26, 2008 Posts: 255
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Posted: October 13, 2009, 7:48 pm Post subject: Re: Oil pump reassembly |
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I thought I read somewhere on this forum that the HP pump increased oil pressure enough that it would actually open the sump filter bypass. Any truth to this?
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xsjohn Full Member
Joined: Jul 30, 2006 Posts: 5857 Location: North Carolina USSA
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Posted: October 14, 2009, 1:03 am Post subject: Re: Oil pump reassembly |
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when it's cold with thick oil......
xsjohn
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Teebs Full Member
Joined: Aug 26, 2008 Posts: 255
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Posted: October 14, 2009, 11:01 am Post subject: Re: Oil pump reassembly |
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Thanks John.
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xsjohn Full Member
Joined: Jul 30, 2006 Posts: 5857 Location: North Carolina USSA
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Posted: October 14, 2009, 11:28 am Post subject: Re: Oil pump reassembly |
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I was just guessing........could tighten the bypass.........
As far as oiling.......it's my understanding that ball and roller bearings can suffer from too much oil........a wall of oil can form in front of the ball or roller causing it to slide instead of roll........read an article about turbos and oiling them.....the final conclusion in that particular article about that particular turbo was to use less pressure and a lighter oil to prevent bearing failure.......not recommending this for the XS but as the article illistrated......sometimes more is not good.......
xsjohn
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Srinath Full Member
Joined: Sep 10, 2009 Posts: 343 Location: Charlotte NC
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Posted: December 10, 2009, 10:25 am Post subject: Re: Oil pump reassembly |
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OK where exactly is this pump, cos I didn't fing one in my motor. Oddly everythign was soaked wet with oil, so its gotta be there somewhere ?
Not in the bottom of the cases I presume ... so where.
Cool.
Srinath.
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Srinath Full Member
Joined: Sep 10, 2009 Posts: 343 Location: Charlotte NC
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Posted: December 10, 2009, 10:44 am Post subject: Re: Oil pump reassembly |
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OK never mind, right side case hidden under the tack worm gear.
Gaaa, lousy spot for oil pump, we need to keep it on the center stand to avoid cavitation.
Luckily there is mostly all ball bearings.
Cool.
Srinath.
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pumps 650Rider Supporter
Joined: May 29, 2007 Posts: 1993 Location: Kansas City, Missouri, U.S.A.- 1977 XS650 "D" Standard
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Posted: December 10, 2009, 10:47 am Post subject: Re: Oil pump reassembly |
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Right side case. Behind where the oil filter & cover is right front.
_________________ You don't HAVE to be crazy to run into burning buildings, but it HELPS!
On an XS you won't pass yourself on the road everyday.
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yamaman Support Staff
Joined: Jan 04, 2007 Posts: 1638 Location: Perth Western Australia
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Posted: December 10, 2009, 10:53 am Post subject: Re: Oil pump reassembly |
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Have you even looked at a manual Srinath?
There's links to a couple in the vault if you need, there is a page with a oil system flow chart. Might help......Cheers
_________________ Its not enough to have an aim in life, you have to pull the trigger! |
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Srinath Full Member
Joined: Sep 10, 2009 Posts: 343 Location: Charlotte NC
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Posted: December 11, 2009, 10:34 am Post subject: Re: Oil pump reassembly |
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Yes have a manual, looked at it etc etc ... but I also go with logical positions etc etc.
I expect the oil pump to be at the bottom right above the pan ...
Anyway I'm good now, unless I got more weird questions about the quirls of this motor.
Cool.
Srinath.
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xsleo Full Member
Joined: Oct 28, 2007 Posts: 1528 Location: Earlville NY
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Posted: December 12, 2009, 7:36 am Post subject: Re: Oil pump reassembly |
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Srinath, yes the oil pump is located in the right cover. It sets lower than the oil level and the oil pick up point is in the sump filter. Your oil level would need to get very low or the bike laying on it's side to starve the pump for oil.
_________________ "You live more in five minutes on a bike than most people do in there whole life"
'75 XS650B with a 79 dual disc front end, rear disk brake, Chrysler reg, Radio Shack rect, LED tail/ brake and turn signals. |
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harv New Member
Joined: Jun 18, 2009 Posts: 1
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Posted: December 21, 2009, 11:10 am Post subject: Re: Oil pump reassembly |
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Should the small screw ( #22)holding check valve (spring #20 and 1/4" ball #21)
be tighten all the way down, or left flush with top of the large screw #19 ?
The #'s I refer to are for the Yamaha parts manual. The reason I ask
is on my first rebuild, I left it flush. On rebuild number two I ran it
all the way down. the engine seems to heat up quicker and run hotter
with it ran all the way down.
1975 b, street tracker.
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jayel 650Rider Supporter
Joined: Apr 16, 2006 Posts: 3417 Location: SE Iowa 1974 TX650A
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Posted: December 21, 2009, 6:03 pm Post subject: Re: Oil pump reassembly |
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flush... screwing it all the way in won't let the bypass work if it needs to
_________________ all it takes is time and money -- Where are we going and why are we in this hand basket? |
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pamcopete 650Rider Supporter
Joined: Oct 10, 2008 Posts: 875 Location: South Carolina
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Posted: December 21, 2009, 6:19 pm Post subject: Re: Oil pump reassembly |
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Well, I have a very different take on the oil filter bypass. Earlier models had the bypass in the oil pump, which is where it belongs.
Having it in the oil filter means that it will open and bypass the filter at exactly the wrong time, when there is junk in the oil plugging the filter, the bypass will open and let the junk into the innards of the engine. Even under normal circumstances, the bypass will open when the engine is cold and let unfiltered oil passed the filter.
So, I removed the ball and spring and screwed a threaded stud in their place so their is no bypass. I never have to worry about junk getting past the filter and ruining the engine.
However, there is a problem with that approach. If something were to plug up the filter, then no oil would get into the innards. So, I installed an oil pressure gage so I can monitor the pressure and be able to see a rise in pressure well before the filter was plugged up.
Oil filter cavity tap for the gage.
Next time I remove the wet side cover I'll tap into one of the plugs on the front of the case and replace the oil filter cover.
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